Ali Berger
For this second edition of Stories & Sounds, we caught up with a good friend, and someone who has been described by Ghostly International as “an integral voice in North America’s current wave of visionary music makers and DJs.” Although now based in Pittsburgh, he’s no stranger to Boston. Whether he was on the dance floor or joining us behind the DJ booth, Ali has been a part of the Social Studies community for almost a decade. We’re lucky to know Ali Berger.
Ali is truly your favorite DJ’s favorite DJ (and is on his way to becoming your favorite producer’s favorite producer) for his rare breadth of musical mastery, honed skill, and hardware prowess, as well as his unlimited soul and emotional depth in spite of all of that technical know-how. Find this in his latest techno project ground series #1, recorded in two days. He calls it “late night primordial techno music”; we feel a grounding funk often lost in today’s techno.
Ali’s music literacy comes in part from a reverence for dance music’s seeds in the ’80s and ’90s. Combine those reference points with living in and learning from Detroit, and you have a DJ that can bring together dance music’s factions, remind what is fundamental to them all, and give them all a special feeling on the floor. Ali’s perpetual personal curiosity not just for how things work, which he knows very well, but for the history that propelled those things into existence, fuels this approach. We know him for acid, we know him for house, we know him for techno, we even know him for some hip-hop, and we know him for drum machine experiments that result in out-of-this-world sounds. On top of that, we also know him for the live set—it’s a privilege to catch this composer at work before your eyes, to dance to something daring and human that can’t be duplicated.
Ali’s catalogue is deep and his output impressive, and he has produced something for musical moods you didn’t even know you were in (“unusual tracks,” he says); innovative tunes meld seamlessly with classic house. You’ll find all that in his mix. He has releases on Spectral Sound, Sweat Equity, and Firm Tracks, but his musical home has been his own label TRACKLAND.
For this interview, we would have preferred to have one of our infamous late-night conversations at a diner, but nonetheless it was a delight to chat over the phone just after this year’s Movement Festival and ahead of Ali’s July 3rd appearance alongside Tony Humphries for the Mister Sunday After Party at Nowadays.
Interview - Alfredo Editor - Sacha Madadian Photography - Amy Wang Art - AlfredoAli, thank you for doing this interview. It's been some years since we’ve seen each other and this pandemic has obviously delayed any chance of doing that. So let’s start there. It's been pretty clear how the emergence of COVID-19 has affected DJs worldwide, but how has the pandemic affected your production personally?
I’m so glad to catch up with you! The pandemic basically gave me time and a sense of urgency, which became really powerful motivation to get in the studio and make lots of music. I’m always pretty in touch with my mortality so especially in those early days, where my mind went was, “I’d better spend my time on what I care about because this life might be shorter than I was expecting.” It sounds dark but if you think about it, that’s true all the time anyway, and accepting that can turn it into a positive source of energy.
Every day, for the last 15 years, I wake up thinking about making music, so when the pandemic started I figured, as difficult and fucked up as this situation is, I can’t go to work, I can’t go out—this is the opportunity to deepen my practice and go as hard as I’ve always wanted to. I’ve tried to keep that going even as work and life have come back to different degrees and, two years later, I’ve made literally hundreds of tracks [and] released a lot of them on my TRACKLAND label. And, most importantly, my process in the studio feels more solid than ever.
“Every day, for the last 15 years, I wake up thinking about making music, so when the pandemic started I figured, as difficult and fucked up as this situation is, I can’t go to work, I can’t go out—this is the opportunity to deepen my practice and go as hard as I’ve always wanted to.”
As a producer, you’ve had quite a good number of vinyl releases, with 2019 being a really prolific year for you. Recently, however, I’ve noticed most of your projects have been self-released digitally via Bandcamp. Is this a consequence of the huge delays pressing plants are currently experiencing or just a new approach?
I’ve been doing Bandcamp releases since 2009 and I started Trackland in 2014, so it’s been part of what I do since before I had any records out. It’s always felt more natural for me to organize tracks into releases myself and make [them] available as quickly as I can. I was able to start releasing full-length projects in 2015 that way, something which would’ve been nearly impossible for a label to do with me back then.
The Bandcamp Day thing really helped raise Tracklands’s visibility, and since then it’s become more like my main outlet rather than something just for the heads. It’s been a long road, but I feel like it’s a strong foundation and musical identity that I’ve been able to define for myself. Now when I do vinyl releases on other labels (which are coming!) there’s a whole context for what I do that all these 12s can connect back to.
I know we both still love the format, but at this point how important is it for artists to have their music on wax? Do you think it still holds the same value or prestige it once did, or did digital finally catch up? Take AceMo's “Where They At???” (ft. John FM), for example. Massive underground anthem. No vinyl.
It’s been great to see digital releases getting more attention. I think there’s more awareness now about the environmental issues with records (Russell E.L. Butler put me onto this great video about that) and the fact that vinyl is really not an option for everyone, financially or even just in terms of the time it takes to coordinate.
Right now, the way I see it is, there’s overlapping but different audiences for each format. There’s something to be said for having records in actual record shops and on Juno, Boomkat, Redeye, etc., which [attract different people] from what you get just releasing on Bandcamp and also different from what you get with digital distribution to streaming services.
I was listening to an episode of Questlove's podcast today, and Tom Silverman (of Tommy Boy Records) was telling a story about buying De La Soul an expensive machine to clean records yet they'd end up keeping the crackles and pops from the things they were sampling. This kinda reminded me of your vinylcrackle supercut EP. It’s kinda funny how we tend to prefer things that sound/look old—there's clearly something about the textures and maybe imperfections. Tell us why it's still important to have an analog quality to your work.
I’ll just preface this by saying, I’m speaking for myself here! I don’t believe in a hierarchy of software and hardware or analog and digital. I think it’s important for everyone to try things out and figure out what feels and sounds best to them.
I could do a whole interview about why I like using hardware, but I’ll try to contain myself. The obvious reason is, if you’ve heard me DJ, you know I love stuff from ’80s Chicago and ’90s New York, music that was mostly (or entirely) made without computers, and definitely not in the way computer-based production [happens] now. That’s a tradition I want to participate in and continue, so I use a lot of the same instruments and methods that were around back then.
Another thing I love about hardware is the way the machines bring their own ideas to the table. They’re all good at different things—they invite me to make particular types of rhythms or sounds or to structure the track in a certain way. So, I tune into that and then I can get into a flow state—the process becomes really smooth, and I’m not thinking or analyzing, just making and developing the groove, which is what I love doing the most.
Most of my music the last few years is recorded straight from the main output of my studio mixer, so most of the arrangement and mix is baked into the recording. In my own stuff I don’t want anything to be perfect or “industry standard,” so this method helps me embrace the mistakes in the mix or the arrangement just like I embrace imperfections in life. You can work that way in the computer (actually this would be a really fun approach to try), but it doesn’t [naturally] lend itself to that.
Whether you want to work like this depends on what styles you’re into, but I do want people to know it’s possible to do it and have very satisfying results, even, or maybe especially, if you only have a few pieces of gear. For me, using hardware in this particular way makes it simple to make music and keeps it from feeling like work, which is something that's been really important to me as I see more of the industry and rely on music for more of my financial support. I always wanna stay connected to the joy of making stuff, so I try very hard to keep it from becoming a chore.
“Another thing I love about hardware is the way the machines bring their own ideas to the table. They’re all good at different things—they invite me to make particular types of rhythms or sounds or to structure the track in a certain way. So, I tune into that and then I can get into a flow state—the process becomes really smooth, and I’m not thinking or analyzing, just making and developing the groove. . .”
Speaking of releases, what's been cooking at Trackland recently and what else can we expect from Ali Berger in 2022?
There’s always more coming on Trackland! At any given time I probably have five or ten release ideas bouncing around in my head. I try to let things come together naturally and finish them when it feels right, which tends to be every month or two. Most recently I released ground series #1, which is kicking off a new series focusing on raw, minimal, and funky techno tracks. I've been more into other zones lately, but I always have fun making that stuff and I get a lot of positive feedback when I put it out. I figured if I have a series for it, I might gravitate towards making it a little more often. I’m also finishing records for three of my favorite labels, although those may not be out until 2023.
Besides releases, I’ll be DJing and playing live around the Eastern/Midwestern U.S. a bunch and hoping to make it out to the West Coast this year too. And last but definitely not least, I’m going to host some online Q&A sessions, sort of like office hours, for production, engineering, DJing etc. I try to answer anyone who DMs me with questions about that stuff, and I’d really like to do it in a format where there’s a public archive so that knowledge can get out there even more.
Aside from your own music, I see you've been doing a lot of mixing & mastering for other artists. What's it like to work on other people's projects?
It’s been really great! I enjoy the challenge of working on stuff that’s mixed or produced differently than my own music, and it’s helped me sharpen my ears and my skills a lot. I’ve connected with a lot of people through doing this too, it’s so nice to go somewhere to play and then meet people at the party who I’ve done engineering work for. I try to be transparent about the process and hopefully help folks understand mastering a little better after I work on their stuff. So far it seems like people really appreciate that!
Over the years, you've had a chance to open for a lot of important artists. I mean, you’re playing alongside Tony Humphries at Nowadays this summer! How did the gig come about and how are you going to approach it?
I had been talking for a little while with my friend Kristin (DJ Voices) about coming to play Nowadays. I was happily surprised when she asked if I wanted to play with Tony Humphries—it makes perfect sense but since leaving Boston, it’s been pretty rare that I’m on a lineup with anyone from that generation. Like I said, I play a lot of music from ’80s and ’90s New York and New Jersey (my home state) in a style very indebted to those eras, so it’s a great fit. I’m gonna focus on having a good time in the booth, playing stuff I wanna hear on that sound system, and setting Tony up as best I can!
There’s a big recurring discourse on Twitter about how younger DJs don't know enough about the history of dance music. What are your thoughts on that? There seems to be a notion that there's a huge generational gap right now. In your opinion, what can we do to bridge that gap? When you first started, what were some of the resources you had to educate yourself?
I started really getting into house music in 2012 when I lived in Brooklyn for a summer. A friend told me about Dope Jams. It happened to be only a couple miles from my apartment so I would go there a lot, and it was so important in helping me learn about the music. Going in there and seeing sections for labels like Strictly Rhythm, Nu Groove, DJ International, and then newer labels like Mathematics, Sequencias, and WT gave me a great starting point, and I’m grateful I had access to that. I also got a lot from the Gridface site by Jacob Arnold that documents Chicago house, the Red Bull Music Academy lectures and written features were huge for me too.
I don’t really have any prescriptions for the generation gap. I do feel it at times, but it’s hard to describe what it actually is. Interactions and relationships between people of different generations are such an individual thing—I wouldn’t tell anyone who they have to be friends with or give their time to.
What has worked for me in building cross-generational relationships is taking that chance to reach out to people I look up to, but doing it respectfully, without entitlement or expectation, and just seeing what comes back. It’s great to be curious and want to connect, just make sure it’s tempered with the understanding that there’s a whole person on the other end who’s probably been through some shit in life and in the music industry. I truly can’t stress this enough, do not be pushy or entitled when reaching out to people!
We saw that you've recently brought back your live sets and have started incorporating live components into your DJ sets. What's the inspiration behind this, and what is some of your gear of choice when performing live?
I’ve always done live sets, even before I was DJing, so once I started playing out again in March, it made sense that the live set wouldn’t be far behind. Spending so much time in the studio the last couple of years really deepened my flow with the gear, so the live set I’m working with now is fully improvised—I use four machines, starting from blank patterns and creating all the music in real time. It’s rougher than a planned set and much more unpredictable, but that’s exciting to me and makes for a special experience.
Lately I've been bringing a drum machine to my DJ gigs as well, usually the Roland TR-8S or the Boss DR-5. Part of the theory behind the improvised live set is that a track created on the spot can be perfect for that moment and I think that can be true during a DJ set too. Sometimes a jam on the drum machine is the best way to connect one track or zone to another.
You had a string of exciting showings in Detroit for Movement. How did it feel going back? Tell us about your experience living in Detroit. What inspired you to move to the Motor City, and what led you to try Pittsburgh?
It was so good to be back in Detroit! I hadn’t visited since the end of 2019, but it still felt like home.
Before living in Detroit, I was in Boston from 2009 to 2015. That was where I started playing gigs and grew up as a producer and DJ. But after six years there, it was time to go somewhere with more producers I could learn from, and generally time to get out of my East Coast comfort zone. I had visited Detroit in 2014, and it just felt right in a bunch of small ways—even now it’s really hard to describe. I visited again in 2015 to confirm that, and then made the move that fall despite knowing only three people in the city. One of the best decisions I ever made!
After almost four years in Detroit, I did start to feel like it was time for another change. I was visiting Pittsburgh a lot to hang with Davis Galvin, one of my absolute best friends who started lobbying for me to move here shortly after we met. In early 2019, I had the opportunity to look for a place with some amazing DJs (Kiernan Laveaux and ADAB, who are now two of my best friends as well), which pretty much sealed the deal.
Tell us more about Pittsburgh then. I only know about the scene there from Hot Mass, Honcho, and Pittsburgh Track Authority.
I still feel very new to the scene here. When I moved I got a job working Sunday and Monday mornings, so I didn’t get out a lot on weekends. I left that job at the end of 2019, but three months later the pandemic started, and I’m still not going out so much. That said, in addition to Hot Mass, there are a lot of amazing queer collectives doing parties here including Most Beautifullest, Dyspheric, and Jellyfish. I get the sense that it’s hard to see what’s going on here from outside. There are so many hardworking, talented, and kind people here, and I’m looking forward to getting out a bit more and connecting.
I think we've covered music enough, let’s move on to the fun stuff. I know you love to cook. What's been on the menu recently?
[I’ve been making] a lot of noodle dishes the last few months, usually with stir-fried vegetables and tofu and some kind of sauce I’ll improvise out of vinegar, fruit juices, soy sauce, sesame oil, oyster sauce, garlic, etc. I also just made a huge green papaya salad, which is always a treat.
I came up with an interesting baked dessert type thing a few months ago, basically superthin slices of Murasaki sweet potatoes layered with pineapple slices, cinnamon, and five spice powder. It was a lot of work, but it came out sweet and tasty and actually pretty healthy.
When we saw you in Detroit in 2018, you gave us a real good tour of the city. Now that you've had some years to experience Pittsburgh, what are some of your favorite places? What are two record stores we should absolutely check out? And what’s your favorite place to grab a bite?
For record stores, everyone says Jerry’s (and for good reason) so I’m not gonna count that in my two. The others I’d recommend are The Attic which has a ton of unsorted 12" bins that I love to go through, and The Government Center, which is a bit smaller and very chill—there’s usually cool finds in the used bins and lots of new stuff in stock too.
For food, I’m gonna say Salem’s Halal Market & Grill, in the Strip District. Can’t go wrong with anything there!
Let's do shout-outs.
OK, here we go. . . my eternally supportive family, the wonderful Amy Wang who took all the studio photos for this piece, my four extremely dedicated and musical housemates ADAB, Kiernan Laveaux, Gusto, and Naeem, my ultra pal Davis Galvin, the Discord (you know who you are), Thich Nhat Hanh, Tempa Dukte Lama, The Best Show, Double Threat, anyone buying or playing or listening to Trackland music, and of course SOCIAL STUDIES!!
Ali, thanks again for the chat. Can't wait to see you in person soon*—and hopefully next time with carrot cake.
*stay tuned; we will indeed be seeing Ali soon. . .